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Another Warfarin patient wanting off of it

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Another Warfarin patient wanting off of it

Postby Dana on Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:49 pm

I am 35 years old and got a huge DVT 2 years ago. One year later I found a naturapath who put me on a series of bromalains. I couldn't tolerate them with my stomach so he switched me to Nattokinase. It seemed to be fine except I am experiencing horrible acne. Which seems to come and go even before the Nattokinase. So I stopped the Natto for awhile and seemed like I got some relief. I started the Natto again and seems like the acne ( face and chest) has started up again. I am using natural Progestorone cream too for estrogen domince. I am still on the Warfarin until I get with my vein specialist in the next month or two and he decides to maybe take me off. My Naturapath has since moved to another state so I haven't been to anyone like him since. My DVT they think was caused by Birth Control Pills - since I have never been a sickly person.
My questions are:
Can Nattokinase cause the horrible acne? Or is it causing the toxins running through my blood to be released from my liver? ( since I have never been able to do a cleanse being on Warfarin)

How safe am I just using Natto if I get to go off the Warfarin from a possible recurrence?

I have been wanting to do a cleanse from all the rotten medications and pain killers I initially was on in the beginning. Is there a safe cleanse that I can do while I'm on the Warfarin that would at least help? Or should I wait until I can get off the stuff to try? In the meantime I am suffering some sort of ill effects from something.
I'm off caffeine, and I do skin brushing. I know it can be a number of possible things but would appreciate some insight. :)
Thank you
Dana
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:17 pm

Another Warfarin patient wanting off of it

Postby Health Dr. 2 on Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:42 pm

Hi Dana,

I do not believe that the Nattokinase would be causing your acne. Warfarin can cause rash, dermatitis, including bullous eruptions. Also because it thins the blood it causes the blood to be closer to the skin thus toxins will be eliminated quicker using the skin route. Remember that you should not abruptly stop Warfarin. It is highly recommended that you discuss this with your healthcare professional.

Your acne could also be caused by a hormonal imbalance. I would suggest that you have your hormones tested by saliva. Also, if the natural progesterone cream that you are using has toxic excipients and fillers you could possibly be allergic to something in the cream itself especially if you are using it on the chest and facial area. We carry the most natural progesterone cream on the market today, Oasis Serene Natural Progesterone Cream.

You can certainly do a cleanse while on the Warfarin. I would recommend a liver/gallbladder/digestive tract cleanse which you can find at: http://www.ghchealth.com/liver-and-gall ... flush.html

The information below may be of some help to you:

Q1: "The subject of Nattokinase seems to have grown over the past year. Seems that a lot of folks are jumping off the coumadin band wagon to take Nattokinase (or Natto) as an anticoagulant. Do you have any knowledge of Nattokinase being a valid anticoagulant?"

A1: Nattokinase may have activity in preventing blood clots, but due to the lack of clinical studies (except for one of limited quality) it can not be concluded that it is a valid anticoagulant.



Q2: "Several people on the list at the factor V web site are using Nattokinase as a clot dissolver along with coumadin and may be tapering down to just Natto. The claim is that it enhances the body's natural ability to fight blood clots in several different ways. Because it so closely resembles plasmin, it dissolves fibrin directly. Do you have any opinions on this soy product?"

A2: While Nattokinase may have some potential to protect from blood clots, it has not been appropriately studied. Any comments and conclusions that "it is effective in preventing blood clots in humans" are, at present, speculation, and any claim that one should consider "using warfarin and Nattokinase together and titrate the warfarin downward" to "decrease the harmful effects of warfarin while maintaining a safer level of anticoagulation with the positive effects of nattokinase" are clinically and scientifically unsound. Nattokinase is not a substitute for warfarin. If an individual takes it, he/she should not count on it having any clinical effect.



Q3: "Combination therapy with both warfarin and nattokinase can provide increased prophylaxis and minimize the negative attributes of solitaire warfarin treatment".

A3: This comment by Ralph Holsworth, Jr., D.O. lacks backing by scientific clinical data - no clinical study has been done to support this statement - and is, in my opinion, inappropriate and unresponsible.

Nattokinase is a soybean food content. It is a 275 amino acid peptide. It is said to have similar clot-dissolving abilities as does plasmin, an enzyme that we all have in our blood as our natural defense mechanism to dissolve unwanted blood clots. The "clot busters" used in clinical medicine (tPA=tissue plasminogen activator, streptokinase, urokinase, etc) to dissolve blood clots that have led to heart attacks, strokes, pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis, all work through enhancing plasmin's action. They have to be given intravenously, because they are not active when given orally.

There are some research data that indicate that orally taken Nattokinase increases the clot dissolving activities (= fibrinolytic activity) of blood in animals and human volunteers and that it suppresses clot formation and enhances clot resolution in animals. However, to my knowledge, only one clinical study has been performed to assess whether Nattokinase has any real benefit in the prevention of blood clots in humans. In that study Nattokinase or placebo were given to individuals prior to long distance (7-8 hours) flights. Of the 92 individuals in the placebo group 7 developed a clot, all without symptoms, discovered by ultrasound; of the 94 individuals in the Nattokinase group none developed a clot. Main flaw of the study, limiting the usefulness of its conclusions, is, that the publication does not indicate whether this was a double-blinded study, or, at least, an investigator-blinded study. A non-blinded study has the potential for bias, limiting the validity of its findings and conclusions.

I think it is fair to conclude at present that Nattokinase may have some potential to protect from blood clots. However, it has not been appropriately studied in humans. Nattokinase is not a substitute for warfarin! If you take it - don't count on it having any clinical effect. It has also not been studied regarding its safety profile, particularly when taken together with warfarin or aspirin.

As always be sure that you check with your healthcare professional before adding to or changing your current protocol.

Take Care & Be Well,
Health Dr. 2
:D
Health Dr. 2
 
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:50 pm

Postby Dana on Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:15 am

Thank you for your time. I have an appt to get a scan done on my entire leg nxt Wed. I will take the results to my specialist who may hopefully take me off the Warfarin.
I do believe the Warfarin is causing the acne you described. I started getting it when I went on the blood thinner, now that I think of it.
I will be more than happy to do the cleanse you recommended.
Thanks for your input - I do appreciate it :D
Dana
Dana
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:17 pm

Postby Dana on Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:01 pm

Oh yea,

I forgot to ask you if the cleanse will affect my protimes.(?) My last protime was on 2/08/05 and was 3.8. My Docter lowered my dose of Warfarin and wanted a recheck in another week. (giving me 2 1/2 weeks to see a change). I haven't changed my diet or drink except I started taking the Natto again. My protimes were consistent whether I was on the Natto or not. They were 2.3 -2.5. So we are trying to regulate the protimes. Should I wait until I get it lowered to do the cleanse or go ahead with it?
Does anything in the products you recommend cause a drastic change in protimes? I have a great Docter who can work with me doing this with the Warfarin dosage adjustment.

Thanks again!
Dana
Dana
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:17 pm

Postby Health Dr. 2 on Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:16 pm

Hi Dana,

In our clinical experience we have found that you should be fine doing the cleanse. Again, though I would highly suggest that you talk with your healthcare professional since he/she knows your health background.

Take Care & Be Well,
Health Dr. 2
:D





DISCLAIMER: The statements enclosed herein have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. The products and information mentioned on this site are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Information and statements made are for education purposes and are not intended to replace the advice of your treating doctor. Global Healing Center does not dispense medical advice, prescribe, or diagnose illness. We design and recommend individual nutritional programs and supplements that allow the body to rebuild and heal itself. The views and nutritional advice expressed by Global Healing Center are not intended to be a substitute for conventional medical service. If you have a severe medical condition, see your physician of choice. This web site contains links to web sites operated by other parties.
Such links are provided for your convenience and reference only. We are not responsible for the content or products of any linked site or any link contained in a linked site.
Health Dr. 2
 
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:50 pm

appt and pro time

Postby deeps on Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:52 pm

[hi!! could u plz tell me why a APPT and a pro time is done???
deeps
deeps
 

Postby Health Dr. 2 on Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:32 pm

Hi

The pro time (or, more properly, the prothrombin time) is a test of the integrity of part of the clotting scheme. The prothrombin time is also commonly used as a method of monitoring the accuracy of blood thinning treatment (anticoagulation) with drugs such as Coumadin.

The pro(thrombin) time is the time needed for clot formation after a substance called thromboplastin (+ calcium) has been added to blood plasma.

Not sure which one of these you mean:

APT Test or Fetal Hemoglobin Test is used to identify the source of blood present in the stool, gastric contents or vomitus of newborns (result of swallowing maternal blood during labor or result of fetal bleeding).

APTT or PTT test is used to assess the intrinsic system and the common pathway of clot formation. The appropriate dose of heparin can be monitored by PTT. Recently activators have been added to PTT test reagents to shorten normal clotting time and provide a narrow normal range. This shortened time is called the activated PTT (APTT).

Take Care & Be Well,
Health Dr. 2
:D
Health Dr. 2
 
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:50 pm


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DISCLAIMER: These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any
disease.

Information and statements made are for education purposes and are not intended to replace the advice of your treating doctor. Global Healing Center does not dispense medical advice, prescribe, or diagnose illness. We design and recommend individual nutritional programs and supplements that allow the body to rebuild and heal itself. The views and nutritional advice expressed by Global Healing Center are not intended to be a substitute for conventional medical service. If you have a severe medical condition, see your physician of choice. This Web site contains links to Web sites operated by other parties. Such links are provided for your convenience and reference only. We are not responsible for the content or products of any linked site or any link contained in a linked site.

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